Beat has requested the opportunity to start a thread with his own post. (This possibility is available to all.) So, without further ado, here it is:
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I've asked Sam for the opportunity of posting this here, as he realizes it's an honest attempt at being constructive and he assures me it will not be deleted.
Many of us (obviously including Sam and myself) have a longstanding affection for the Boston.com Celtics Message Board. It has become a way of life and a source of great camaraderie. And, as things have become increasingly contentious for one reason or another, we've felt it was worth the effort to wrestle with how to deal with the situation. A lot of that has involved trial and error, and I've had my share of both.
Sam's site will fill a niche for what he describes as "in-depth conversation" on post-game threads and numerous issues relating to the Celtics. And it's a refreshing haven from contentiousness and lack of civility. But, at least for me, it's also important to keep being able to access the rapid fire, multiple thread benefits of the Boston.com site. And to share thoughts about how to do that with other people. So this post is meant as a sort of word to the wise about the sensitive nature of the Boston.com situation.
I was recently banned again. When I inquired about the reason, I received the following reply:
"Thank you for writing to Boston.com. Your posting privileges were suspended because you violated our policy by making the following comment, which is a personal attack on another user:
"Another reason for the ignore button......champishere. Should be......champhasnoclue. Beat"
I did make the statement, but I nearly fell out of my chair from laughing so hard. With the name calling that takes place on BDC, I had apparently been suspended for making a parody of a troll's name.
I responded to BDC "Dottie" and explained that yes I did commit the alleged infraction and that they were being a bit over the top this time. I suggested that they receive a bit of sensitivity training. I explained that putting up with the constant attacks from the trolls was taking a toll on many good regular posters who were the backbone of the forum and were being treated like second class citizens. Finally I requested that my suspension be reviewed and lifted. A very short time later I received this response:
Hello: Your posting privileges have been restored. If you see something that you believe violates our posting rules, you can report it directly to the moderators by clicking the "report abuse" link, instead of risking your own posting privileges by responding with abusive material.
So I'm back in circulation on BDC. My reason for posting this is not to slam BCD. I just want to make sure everyone who posts on BDC knows how careful we should all be on that site, especially in saying something we feel is humorous but which would be even loosely interpreted as insulting. You'll save yourself lots of trouble if you just avoid the humor or maybe throw a lot of LOLs in there.
Beat
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18 comments:
BEAT:
Considering the sorts of vile and abusive comments that are tolerated on BCD all too regularly, I have to confess that I am stunned that you would be banned for your comments.
I have lurked there for an extended period of time and only registered of late in order to be able to "Ignore" particularly offensive trolls who seemed to have taken over the forum and who are like uninvited guests crashing a party who simply refuse to leave.
I finally had to challenge/shame "management" directly by screaming at a particularly offensive rant... "Where are the mods? Are there any grown ups here? This should never be allowed!"
It worked....that time. Who knows if it will work again... but I should not have to "scream" in the name of restoring civility.
BDC short staffed? I guess... but that is no excuse. And concerned posters simply cannot ignore the trolls and hope that management will act. In this sort of leadership vacuum, they thrive and become even more extreme and daring and in your face!
I don't blame the trolls. Trolls are trolls. What do you expect.
It's management that allows this foolishness to continue... and escalate!
I wonder when BCD turns into a pay to play site if that will solve matters.
I'm not sure that it will.
Beat, I'm shocked that you were banned for the statements you made. Today I saw a Cav fan tell a Celtic fan, "parquet", that he shouldn't "stick his nose in other people's business unless he wants it ripped off". I'm paraphasing, but compared to that type of comment, your comments were harmless.
I left BDC because it was becoming difficult to remain "civil" and at the same time not be a target of some on both sides. I admit that I am overline Boston Celtic and City of Boston supporter. However, it's safer for me to treat adversaries in a respectful manner. That is,if they do the same. The folks who signed up for Sam's site, to me, make following the Celtics, win or lose, far more enjoyable. You guys/girls are true Celtic fans. Therefore, I find this site to be far more enjoyable than BDC.
It now appears that there is an all out war on BDC since the exhibition "season" has started. Future attacks will probably fluctuate based on the daily wins and losses. However, since most of you still post on BDC, I may try a return. However, I agree with you, we should be selective and avoid the direct "wars of words". Even though my second favorite NBA team will always be anyone playing the Lakers, I am open to civil discussions where both sides recognize that following an NBA sports team needs to keep its proper place in life's priorities.
No matter what goes on with BDC, I hope the Celtic fans support Sam's efforts by doing most of their blogging here.
Again thanks for the post, and your advice.
David
beat,
Pretty tame stuff, compared to the screaming that goes on there regularly.
Here's a post, which I posted yesterday, that was deleted by this morning. I just reposted it on the idiotic "Rondo FG%" thread.
Tell me if you think this is worthy of deletion...
_________________
Per 36 minutes of regular season play:
Career fg% - Rondo 48%, Fisher 40.4%. Winner - Rondo. In a laugher.
'09 fg% - Rondo 50.5%, Fisher 42.4. Winner - Rondo. In a laugher.
Career rebounds - Rondo, 5.5, Fisher 3.0. Winner - Rondo. In a laugher.
'09 rebounds - Rondo 5.7, Fisher 2.8. Winner - Rondo. In a laugher.
Career assists - Rondo 7.2, Fisher 4.4. Winner - Rondo. In a laugher.
'09 assists - Rondo 9.0, Fisher, 3.8. Winner - Rondo. In a laugher.
Career steals - Rondo 2.2, Fisher 1.5. Winner - Rondo. By a nice margin.
'09 steals - Rondo 2.0, Fisher 1.4. Winner - Rondo. By a nice margin.
Career blocks - Rondo .2, Fisher .1. Winner - Rondo. By a small margin.
'09 blocks - Rondo .1, Fisher .1. No Winner.
Career ppg - Rondo 12.0, Fisher 12.5. Winner - Fisher. By a hair.
'09 ppg - Rondo 13.0, Fisher 12.0. Winner - Rondo. By a small margin.
'09 Playoffs, per 36 minutes of play:
Rondo - 16.9 points, 9.7 rebounds, 9.8 assists.
Fisher - 8.0 points, 2.3 rebounds, 2.6 assists.
Rondo wins in a laugher. Furthermore, Rondo stepped up way up in the playoffs while Fisher tanked (a D-Fish tank!).
Regular season "clutch" play:
"Clutch" is defined as 4th qtr or OT, <5 mins left, neither team ahead by >5 points
FG% - Rondo 43.2%, Fisher 25%. Fisher is 11th from the bottom of the NBA. Winner - Rondo. In a laugher.
Rebounds - Rondo 7.5, Fisher 4.9. Winner - Rondo. In a laugher.
Assists - Rondo 7.6, Fisher 1.4. Winner - Rondo. In a laugher.
Steals - Rondo .9, Fisher .7. Winner - Rondo. By a small but clear margin.
Rondo destroys Fisher in most major statistical categories. He destroys him regular season, playoffs and in the clutch.
Notice, with the exception of fg%, Fisher's numbers in 2009 are down from his career numbers while Rondo's are up. Fisher's 35 (and talking about playing into his 40's) while Rondo's 23 and getting better.
With the exception of .5ppg career, Fisher did not win one single category against Rondo. Fisher's a better ft shooter and a better 3pt shooter and that's about it. Take away Fisher's 3pt fg%, make him shoot from closer in and his 2pt fg% is excrement. Back out Rondo's 3pt shooting and his average goes way up.
Rajon Rondo was All-NBA Defensive Second Team in 2009. Fisher has NEVER been named to an All-Defensive team.
I think Rondo's already a better player, and he's just 23.
Now, I ask you, is that something that should have been deleted?
RAJ & David
Thanks, I'll need support when I cross the invisable line again which I fear I will eventually do.
Been suspended /banned 3 times now and made it back each time under the same name. sure beats the trolls.
BobH
Of course all of your posts should be banned. Who among the trolls can combat logical stats.
Your in par the reason for my last issue as it was you I was posting to about champ calling him champ has no clue and ba-bing he must have reported it and some tight pants, overpaid, under worked yuppie, first day on the newest job made the decision to ban ME, WHAT A JOKE.
This is a great sight and I can't wait to discuss the season once it starts. I gather you have no way of watching preseason either, bummer.
champ is not here
but beat is!!
It just isn't worth it, Beat. They come there just for that reason. To see if they can get you guys banned!
It is ridiculous. I wrote BDC during the summer after you had been banned. I told them exactly what I just said, that this was a place for Laker and Cav fans to come and disgrace the Celtics. The response was that your remarks were being looked at and a decision would be forthcoming. What a joke. That was right after you wrote your poem.
I just wish you guys would ignore them totally, eventually they will go away if no one is there to talk to them.
Unless the BDC mods are going to interpret and enforce the "rules" fairly, you are wasting your time and energy. The mods hold all the cards and seem to respond randomly (and ineffectively) to complaints of abuse.
The "heavy hitter" posters need to ignore the baiting for darn sure... leaving others to try aggressively to shame the mods into doing their jobs. Otherwise, there is simply no hope.
This is an apology to NYCelt. Someone else asked me to zap his own post on this thread, and I accidentally zapped one by NYCelt. I've apologized to NYCelt off the board, and I want to assure everyone there's no loose cannon just zapping people's posts randomly.
Sorry, NYCelt
Sam
Beat,
First time posting here. Hopefully it posts ok. I have been having some problems getting my posts to post. The BDC issues you write about are one of the main reasons I have backed off on my posting. It is also one reason, not the main reason, but one reason why I changed my screen name. I figured having SDLaker would increase my chances of being banned. After all, I remember several Laker trolls trying to call me a Celtics Fan just because I stood up for some Celtics Fans against some ignorant so-called Lakers Fans. I had so much fun posting with you guys last year. Not so much fun now. I wanted to take a couple friendly jabs at some of the regulars after the Lakers won the title, but decided not to for fear of how it would be viewed. I use to jab back and forth with HR a little last year, but now would probably be banned for doing so. Anyway, love the site. A thanks goes out again to Sam and the followers for joining. Good luck this year, and may the best team win.
MG
MustangGator, you are one cool guy! Congratulations on joining the blog. I'm sure it was a breeze! LOL. A hearty welcome!
Sam
My apology to NYCelt also. I have strong suspicions that I was the guilty party that asked Sam to delete my post due to some issues I was having. I think I now have them resolved. Thanks for all your help Sam, and again sorry NYCelt. Myfault, not Sam's.
MG
Thanks Sam. It only has taken all week and about a dozen emails to the east coast for me to figure out how to join, LOL.
MG
Rosalie
I've long since ignored trolls and the thing my reply was to bob and I never even read the trolls post. Just thought I'd make light of his name.
NYCelt & Mustang/Gator
Welcome aboard. With a few exceptions most of the regulars from BDC have found there way here.
beat
Sam,
No apology needed. It was late, I was tired and I may not have said anything coherent anyway!
Beat, Mustang and all,
I'm already starting to think Sam's blog may have the appeal we originally found in the Globe forum.
I've also been thinking that a really good smack-down of the Lakers could cure the 2 or 3 individuals causing the Globe troll problem!
Regards
MG, welcome to Sam's site. I believe light hearted and good faith debates with fans of other teams can add to our "sports fun". I have always enjoyed debating with Laker fans and, in fact, playing against anyone that chooses to wear purple and gold on the court. It makes playing the sport more fun. On the other hand, some Laker posters on the BDC board are motivated to attack New Englanders, Boston sports fans, and the city of Boston in particular. They are using the Celtic v Laker rivalry as a "tool". That's unfortunate. When it gets personal nothing good comes from the exchanges. Frankly, the Celtic/Laker rivalry is calm compared to the Dodger/Giant "hatred". Therefore, until BDC decides to implement the same security rules that many, including CNN, have implemented, nothing will change. Sam's site can be a great place for Celtic fans and good faith Laker fans to share basketball insights and exchange good faith supporting views. In my opinion, Celtic fans that choose to post on BDC, and I may return, should accept the “status quo” and do their best to either “ignore” the “baiting” and/or handle the “baiting” in a civil manner. The "baiting" appears to be designed to elicit emotional reactions. Keep in mind, a number of us, including myself, Beat, Sam, Bob H, OP, and others have spent time in BDC’s “penalty box” for defending our guys in “green”. In my case, I was sent to the penalty box during my first month of posting on BDC for aggressively defending Red Auerbach, his daughter, and Bill Russell from some highly insulting personal attacks.
Welcome to the site and please feel free to support your team in the “good faith” manner that you are have offered in the past. Although, I certainly hope that the Celtics win #18 in a convincing manner!!!
Well nearly a week after I publically challenged the BCD mods in a particularly over the top out of control thread by asking, "Are there any grown ups here? Where are the mods? This should never be allowed", my post DISAPPEARED.
I guess BCD was doing a bit of "tidying up" and perhaps thought that my comments reflected poorly on "management"... which it certainly did and for good reason!
Their rules as posted:
"Keep it clean. No swears or porn.
Be nice. No threats, abuse, or spam.
Be respectful. No hate speech.
Be truthful. Don't pretend to be somebody else.
Debate, but don't attack. Stay away from personal attacks.
No ads. No pushing a product or service, and no asking for money.
Don't steal. Don't post somebody else's stuff, and don't libel anybody.
We can edit. Or delete. Or ban you."
Yes they CAN and WILL edit/delete/ban and don't even need a good rhyme or reason.
Hey Sam, Beat and others,
First let me say, Sam, that this is a great idea and keep the faith. This blog will continue to grow, don't underestimate the number of people who are interested in mature, reasonable conversation here on the internet. There is a dearth of decent blogs and message boards of any topic which promote intellect, thoughtfulness and general decency. In my experiences, the stricter a forum is policed, the higher the standard of which the users hold themselves accountable for. So don't feel bad if you have to give certain people the boot, they have their very own sandbox to play in now and should be relegated to exactly that.
As for BDC, I have to echo much of what has already been said. I couldn't stomach to even read through that forum any more by the playoffs, much less post on it. It used to be a great message board for Celtic fans, but it is BDC's home and they are free to do with it what they wish. It seems they are fully intent to destroy whatever level of respectability it once held. That's fine. Things tend to evolve rather quickly on the intertubes. When one once prominent locale takes a header off the deep end, there is usually another site to pick up the slack. Maintain the quality and integrity of this page, Sam, and it will continue to grow. BDC cannot be saved, but it was a good run while it lasted.
I look forward to posting here during the upcoming season. I've been relegated to searching for other forums to discuss the C's and basketball, but I already know the quality and insight many of you bring to the table.
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