Monday, October 5, 2009

Monday, October 5

Nice to return to a full computer screen and, most important of all, keys that fit my fingers (after several days with the BlackBerry).  For those who are interested, it was a great trip.  My daughter and her boyfriend were surprised (shocked in fact), but they insisted on spending about half their short time with me, and we had a blast!  Stayed out so late that the time change never became a problem.

Anyway, they reran that Celtics Training tv special so many times that I got to see most of it.  Very interesting; very encouraging, although I thought the scrimmages looked sort of helter skelter (I guess to be expected; I'm not sure when it was filmed).  The thing that most impressed me was their togetherness of purpose.


In contrast, I read the following squib by Mark Murphy in the Oct. 4 Boston Herald:
(Quote) 
An accomplished big man coach may be back on the market now that young Lakers center Andrew Bynum has apparently decided there’s not much else he needs to learn from Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. The Hall of Famer told the Los Angeles Daily News last week that his young protege, who has made marked progress under his wing over the last two years, has apparently out-grown the partnership. “I think there are things that have to do with basketball that he could learn, but he’s getting on in years,” Abdul-Jabbar said. Replied Bynum: “As long as he is helping me everything is going to be fine.”
The rift appears to have been caused by Bynum’s decision to spend his summer traveling through Europe - and, in Jabbar’s view, at the expense of working on his game. He also stayed out of touch with Jabbar. “He’s got to figure it out,” said the former Laker great, who added that he is still there for Bynum. 
(End Quote)

So apparently a new era of self-proclaimed greatness has dawned in L.A., and we can now call Kareem "Mr. Irrelevant."  I wonder what would happen if Russ were hired to work with Perk.  Different story, I know, because of the valued presence of Clifford Ray.  But somehow I would envision a radically different scenario.  Just another testament to the transcendent greatness of the Celtics tradition that many people simply don't have a prayer of understanding.

***** 

Interesting that, at the same time, Doc was talking about the importance of recapturing the Celtics' spirit of Ubunto, which may have taken a hit last season.  I'm not certain he was pointing to any single player (I know people have been wondering about Rondo), but he clearly indicated that young guys, in particular, can have a tendency to go off in different directions when severe adversity hits.  (He mentioned contracts, so I assume that at least Baby was included as well).

So, when one gets right down to it, Doc may really have been talking (at least between the lines) about the importance of team leadership in difficult times.  I guess there are different types of leaders.  There is the "Get on my back boys" type—Pierce, Max, etc.  And there is the "It all flows from the team" type—KG, Russ, etc.  (I wanted to include Larry in one of these, but he may have been an exceptional combination of both.  Havlicek too.)

Moreover, notwithstanding all we hear about "locker room presence," leadership is probably a whole lot more effective when exerted by example on the floor than when wearing a suit in the locker room.  I expect that KG realized he was not cut out to be a sideline cheerleader, which is probably why he stayed in the locker room so often.  I doubt it mattered either way.  They really needed him driving them on the floor.

*****

Now that the preseason games are about to start on Wednesday, I assume today will be their last in Newport.  I'd be interested to hear people's impressions of what kind of camp it has been and what the implications may be for the season.

***** 

This site was initiated (in part) to facilitate a civil "post game" discussion of each game.  I have no desire to intrude on the Boston.com "game-on" thread and hope to participate myself (although that site just seems to become more and more contentious).  But, since a blog like this, by definition, has one "poster" and (hopefully) a lot of "commenters," here's how I suggest we do it.

Toward the end of each game, I'll start a post called "Reflections on Game of (DATE)."  That post will be an open opportunity for civil discussion of the game.  Just comment and comment and comment to your hearts' content.  If no comments are forthcoming after the game (and assuming I'm not slumped over a table in some bar), I'll chip in with some observations of my own.

And, if anyone has suggestions of related features we could consider on an ongoing basis, please let me know.  Voting for the game's MVP?  (There's no "polling" feature on this site, so it would have to be done via comments.)  Maybe a report card for the team on a number of dimensions of the game?  (If so, what dimensions would you suggest?  Something as simple as offense/rebounding/boards/coaching or something more in-depth to include more subtle things like chemistry, intensity, passing, ball-control, etc.?  My goal is for the blog to be a democratic venture, so that all can have inputs not only as to content but also as to format.  We can consider the "Reflections..." a work in progress over time.  SUGGESTIONS ARE ALWAYS MOST WELCOME ON ANY MATTER.

***** 

And, finally, I'm sorry about the no-edit limitation.  I can edit my posts, which are a different category from comments.  If you had the ability to delete your comments, you could just "cut" your comment, then delete it, then change it, then re-"paste" it.  But I gather that's not available to you.  There isn't even a spellcheck feature (apparently there used to be one).  So all I can suggest for the moment is (1) proof what you've written—a hassle, I know—or (2) exercise mutual patience and understanding when it comes to typos.  And, to Bob H., typing "not" for "now" is my most frequent error and causes me no end of embarrassment by often completely reversing what I'm trying to say.  So I feel your pain.

Best regards and GO CELTICS,

Sam

44 comments:

beat said...

Sam

Welcome home and glad to hear you had a good time.

Just an idea with 3-4 games weekly perhaps a weekly sumary of the games the previous week, the high spots and low spots might be a bit more manageable then individual games. Especially with the low numbers right now.

Maybe a quick email to your friend lists might get a few newbees on here and some regulars too many whom may just be waiting for the season anyway.

Your take on the Bynum situation is spot on. If I had ever been give a 7' body like that and some basketball skill .......... to work with Kareem Abdul Jabbar?

What in the world is he thinking? Or better what is he NOT thinking of?

Wonder how Jackson feels about it and how does it affect others on that team who may not have as much talent but a little better work ethic?

Shades of Sidney Wicks I quess.

The C's have so many vets on the roster that a young pup (Rondo, Baby) had better stay in his own yard. And when a quality player like Daniels leaves millions on the table to play here the others had better take notice.

Off Topic.....always had a place in my heart for the Detroit Tigers and was hoping that Verlander would beat the Yanks. Now they have a 1 game playoff with the Twins.

Any guesses about the game tomorrow, or for that matter Farve's game tonight against the Packers? (now that sounds wrong)

I'm hoping the Tigers can win it but if I'm betting I think the Vikes win tonight and the Twins win tomorrow. There is no place like home.

Unknown said...

Sam,

Welcome back. Having been to Paris a few times myself, I'm not sure I'd feel that way myself, but I hope you're happy to be back.

As far as the Bynum issue goes, I see that as another example of his immaturity and of Phil Jackson's style. On any other team, Bynum would have been told "he's our bigman coach. You will listen to him". On the Lakers it's "oh, ok, you can have it your way". So, now, it's Jackson who will be spending more time with Bynum, which means the head coach is spending less time with the team, and then what? Bynum made noise last season about how Phil was not letting him get enough offensive touches. If Jackson coaches him one-on-one will Bynum be even MORE insistent at getting touches? "I'm doing what you asked, Phil, why won't you let me touch the ball?". Welcome to Train-wreck Central. All Aboard!!

As it is, Ron Artest averaged 4fga more per game than Ariza did last year. If Artest, a career 42%fg shooter (40% last year) wants the same number of touches he's always gotten, and Bynum wants more touches, who will give them up? KoME? Good luck trying to pry the ball out of his cold, dead hands. Gasol? He's one of the most efficient shooters on the team! D-Fish? He doesn't take many now (see above commentary as to why).

bob

Sam said...

Beat and David,

Yeah, the Bynum thing is curious. Just the idea of dissing a certified legend as a mentor seems strange. Maybe there are factors we just don't know about.

You're right, Beat. While we may have the cream of the crop in many ways, the small number of people on the blog has been disappointing. But, when I look at the number of hits (about 2,000 in a couple of weeks), it suggests that many people are looking in but not commenting.

I've already sent a message to half the list. I can send one to the other half (more recent entries), and maybe some of the "regulars" could talk it up on the board. But, frankly, I'm more concerned that the content be more compelling once people do "join."

That's why I thought a regular game rehash might appeal to people with some regularity. I know people on the board have appreciated the "takes" of people like Mike and Dboss.

So I think I'll try it game-by-game at first. The continuity could be of benefit in retaining people and building some momentum. If it attracts little participation on a game-by-game basis, I can change it to weekly.

One reason I've been reluctant to be more aggressive in trying to recruit people is that, although I've asked about half a dozen times, I can't come up with a "how to do it" list of how people join this blog.

It was a different process for me as the principal blogger. Because of computer recognition, the blog will not allow me to pose as one of you just joining the blog.

What I badly need is a list that says: "First you do this" (I guess someone has to become a "friend" or a "follower" or something like that) "and here's how you do it. Then, in order to make a comment, here's how you do that."

They're two seemingly simple things, but I don't know how to instruct people to do it, and I can't find instructions on the site. I think people may feel I was only kidding or have solved the mystery, but neither is the case.

So I'm still hoping someone will give me a step-by-step checklist. Until then, I feel like a hypocrit by asking people to join but not being able to tell them how to do it.

I'll stick with for now, though, because I find it enjoyable and also very rewarding to have some control over the civility of the site.

Take care,

Sam

David14 said...

Hi Sam, welcome back. I'll take a shot at offering a step by step instruction some time later today. I had to follow the instructions in order to participate. It's not that difficult.

The other problem appears to be that some Celtic fans appear to enjoy trying to take on the combatative Laker fans. Therefore, they may avoid the Celtic fan only based site. I think you are right though, once the actual season starts, there will be more pure basketball issues to discuss.

Sam said...

David

It's kind of interesting. Over the past week (including a few days of absence on my part), the blog has averaged nearly 200 "hits" a day." So far today, there have been more than 80, and yet only three or four comments (excluding my own).

My marketing sense (or what's left of it) would suggest that people are looking but not participating. I'm wondering if the process of doing so appears too daunting to some, which is why I'd like to explain it in easy terms as well as trying to improve the "product" by making it more attractive.

I'm a big believer in trying to maximize the appeal of a product before trying to market it.

Thanks for any help you may feel you have time to provide.

Sam

Outside said...

Regarding Bynum, a couple of points:

-- He has worked extensively with Kareem since joining the pros. He'll supposedly continue to work with Kareem, just not as much.

-- Jackson will work with him, but so will all of his assistant coaches. I suspect that Phil's time with him will be more "quality" than "quantity."

Even though there are likely factors we aren't privy to (for example, great players rarely make great coaches, and Kareem may not be a very good coach), it does seem odd at this point in Bynum's career for him to spend less time with Kareem.

Maybe it's his way of asserting independence, but I'd agree with Sam that that's more a sign of immaturity than independence. He is only 21 years old (22 later this month).

I hope you don't mind comments from an "outside view." If you'd prefer to keep comments to Celtic fans, I'd understand; just let me know. Sam's blog is for Celtic fans, and I don't want to intrude on that.

Outside

beat said...

Outside

Obviously this blog is "basically" for Celtic fans and I can only speak for myself, but if your comment is in any way indicative of your future posts/comments, I certainly will have no issue with them.

You must realize that when push comes to shove the Celtics can do no wrong and the Lakers can do no right and should the Lakers win it was a fluke and if the Celtics win it is because of hard work.
Lakers get all the breaks and the C's never get any!

If you can accept those facts you might have a chance to survive here.

(kidding of course) well sort of.

As for Bynum........

I remember being 21 years ago and I guess I thought I knew about all there was to know then too.

Bynum "may" realize that he's got a lot to learn too, when he gets schooled a few to many times that a little teaching from someone like Jabbar might be welcome.

As mentioned he is only 21 and he's got a whole lot of growing up (not physically) to do. He's really still a college junior in reality.

beat

Sam said...

Outside,

Welcome to the blog. This blog is for Celtics fans and friends of Celtics fans. Other opinions are most welcome, and yours are always particularly reasonable.

It's the antagonism and taunting that should be eliminated. Some people feel that we Celtics fans just cannot abide anything that's not pro-Celtics. That's ridiculous trash!

One of the fun things in life is to correspond with people from other cultures. I consider fans of other teams to be other cultures. Because they have competitive natures in common, discourse can get out of hand. That's what we're trying to monitor here.

So you are MOST welcome...and so are your civil views, opposing or not.

Best,

Sam

David14 said...

Sam, I think the other guys just need a "little push" to start posting on this site. I know guys like Michael from Denver, MD, and some of the others prefer clean and respectful discussions. I think it would help for us to mention "Sam's site" on the other board from time to time without appearing to be attempting to replace BDC. I have not posted there in the last two weeks. However, I was thinking of going on after the season starts and giving this site a "plug".

I'll send my "step by step" write up in a few hours.

David

Sam said...

Thanks David.

Sam

beat said...

David

I like your Avitar of Cousy using the oposition as a pick. Any idea who the other guys are in the photo?

beat

beat said...

All

when attempting to look up David's Cousy photo happened to bumb into this bunch of old and new ones, worth a look.
http://www.sikids.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0902/celtics.historical.photos/content.1.html

beat

Rosalie said...

Hi Sam, welcome back. After just reading and not posting on the other blog, it has become just a place for bloggers to argue back and forth. The comments are getting crazy, and it is no longer a place to go and talk basketball with people who enjoy the Celtics as much as I do. Some of the arguments are ridiculous.
I think people go there just to bait Celtic fans. Some of the posts are just to get fans riled up. Maybe some like it, I do not.
There is no intelligence in half of what they say.

If you are a Laker fan, good luck to you, but why don't you go to your own site? They know they can get the best of Celtic fans and it is just a game. I find myself staying away, and I notice many posters missing from the site also.
Who wants to read garbage.

So, I guess you have won some of us over here, and I will enjoy this during the season as the Celtics strive for #18!

Andrew Bynum doesn't realize what he is doing by not dealing with Kareem anymore. He has hurt so much in the last couple of years that he couldn't be THAT polished.
Learning from a master like Kareem could make him the player he hopes to become. This is just another sign of the younger generation thinking that they know it all. He
may still have Kareem around, but don't you think Kareem's attitude will be a little different?

Oh well, I spent the weekend trying to catch up with the Celtics on television. It is too bad that the workout had to be cut short. The interviews were really very repetitive of what we have been reading, so I would much rather have seen some practice ball being played.

Welcome Back, hopefully this site will pick up some new posters in the next week and the conversations will become more lively.

David14 said...

Sam, the following is the "step by step" procedure I used to participate on the site. You may be able to refne the instructions, however this will allow anyone to get instant access. Hope it helps-

INSTRUCTIONS TO POST ON SAM’S BOSTON CELTIC FAN’S SITE

1.Press the “Follow” button on the main site page.

2.You can sign in by;
1) Establishing a new Google Account;
(2) Using an Existing Google Account,
(3) Using an existing AIM Account (AOL Instant Message), or; (4) Use an existing Yahoo Account.

3. Choose one of the following;

A. To establish a new Google Account-

1.Press the Google Button
2.On the right hand side you
will see a box
marked; “Create an Account
Now”.
3.Click on “create an account
now”
4. Fill in the boxes;
aa-“ Your current email
address”
bb- “Choose a
password”
cc- “Re-enter password”
5. Enter your location in the
box
6. Fill in the security code
that is shown
7. Click the Accept
the “Terms of Service”
button
8. Fill in the appropriate
Profile Info- You can
paste an Avatar in the box
if you wish.
9. You are now ready to
return to Sam’s site- To
post you can;
a. Click “sign in” in the
top right corner, or
b. Click- “Post a
comment” at the bottom
of each page- This
method you post in
the box provided an
sign-in on that page.

B. If you already have a Google
Account
1. Click “Follow” Box on the
main site
2. Click the “Google Box”
3. Enter the “Sign in” email
and password info.

C. If you have an AIM Account
1. Click “Follow” Box on the
main site
2. Click the AIM Box
3. Enter the “Sign in” email
and password info.


D. If you have an YAHOO Account
1. Click “Follow” Box on the
main site
2. Click the “Yahoo” button
3. Enter the “sign in” info


NOTE- YOUR ACTUAL EMAIL IS NOT SEEN BY THE PUBLIC UNLESS YOU PUBLISH IT

Sam said...

Beat,

Isn't that a great avatar? Look at the torque in Cousy's body control. No one, no matter how long his arms, could reach in and bother the ball without fouling.

Great action sequence in the link you posted. Very interesting to look at his feet and reaffirm that his behind-the-back drive was legal. Hot Rod Hundley says that The Cooz did it against him once, and so Hot Rod reciprocated. So the Cooz went behind the back twice on the next drive.

Have I mentioned that I'm a HUGE Cousy fan? LOL. Thanks for the reference.

Sam

Sam said...

Rosalie, I don't yet know how people will use this site. Maybe some will just come here for a respite when the board becomes too contentious. (Because I guarantee this one will not become contentious. This is the "Zapper" speaking. LOL.)

Or maybe some will come to contribute more regularly. I have no desire to push it either way, as I'm happy just to talk about the Celtics and to do it civilly.

Anyway, may those who come here can help to maximize the appeal of this site within its limitations. I hope so, and I'm going to give it a good long try (at least as far as I know now).

Thanks for your support and for your comments.

Best,

Sam

Sam said...

David,

Wow! Wow!

Now I know why you do what you do and why you do it so well. Many thanks for exactly the kind of detail I needed.

Maybe I'll try to abbreviate it, but not very much because it's perfect.

Many, many thanks. I know you're busy, and a busy person giving of his time deserves much appreciation.

Thanks again,

Sam

David14 said...

Sam, you are very welcome. I want to do what I can to help you succeed.

Beat----I'm going to try to figure out whose defending Cousy. Of course, by source of the picture was so impressed with Cooz that they didn't mentioned the defenders!!! I thought one of you guys/girl would call me on that one!!

David

Sam said...

Beat,

I forgot to answer your question about the two games. I agreed with you about the Vikes and the Twins. Of course, at this time, the Vikes are comfortably up, so that one's now much easier.

Sam

kellygreen17 said...

Hi Sam and fellow Celtics fans,

I think I may account for some of the "hits" you've received on this blog without any comments to back it up. Thank you for the sign up instructions David, they were very helpful. Although I've never posted, I've been following the BDC board for a couple years now. Lately I've found all the Celtic haters have been getting me too riled up to enjoy reading much over there! This is a nice change of scenery.

Sam, I've always enjoyed your posts on BDC, and being a relatively young Celtics fan, the history you and others have provided on our beloved Celtics has been amazing!

Keep up the good work and thanks for creating another spot for me to get my Celtics fix!

David14 said...

KellyGreen, welcome to Sam's site. I'm glad the instructions actually worked. It is nice to be able to talk about the Celtics without the problems on BDC. It seems like it was impossible to please everyone on that site since BDC doesn't really enforce posting etiquette. Those of us who love the Celtics will enjoy sharing thoughts here throughout the season.

David

Sam said...

Kelly,

Welcome to the blog. And sure it's a great name you've selected!

Thanks again to David for his thoughtfulness in providing detailed instructions for joining. I'm going to "steal" them and make them the subject of a major post today in hopes of attracting more members.

And, for those who are aware of the "board contingency" lists, everyone on those lists received a personal invitation yesterday.

Sam

David14 said...

Morning Sam, you are not "stealing" the instructions. They are yours to use and/or modify is necessary. Simply doing my part to support your site. Hopefully, word will spread and more Celtic supporters will join in!!

One more day until "game time", even if it is exhibition!!

RAJ said...

Greetings. I am honored to be invited to this link.

I had to laugh about the reference to BBD's apparent weight loss and improved conditioning this season. He looks down right svelte/ripped compared to Sweetney. I could not believe my eyes when I saw Sweet's caboose and sensed the gym floor tremble when he rumbled around.

I hate to be a stick in the mud for this upcoming season but I have yet to get over the C's failure to give Leon a contract.

I will be frankly devastated to see him wearing a Cav's uniform. This certainly dispells any notion that the C's are family... that the Celtics are "a way of life" as Red used to say.

I am just an old fool for sure but I simply cannot root against Powe. When the C's and Cavs finally go at it, to say that I will be ambivalent is a monumental understatement... and in many ways I hope that Powe rubs DA's nose in it. This should not have happened.

beat said...

Kellygreen17

Nice name and number, Hondo was and will always be my favorite.
I agree the BDC board is a mess in so many ways, even now "apparently" some cannot see my posts (others can)? go figure.

Hopefully a few other lurkers will find there way here too.

OT Re Marcus's first informal "practice" he ran out of gas early and struggled a lot. He did ok but it was obvious to me something was wrong, it was only after we left and were on the way home he said he didn't feel very good. Poor kid had a fever of 99 and never let on as he did not want to miss it. He's feeling better today. Hopefully Thursday, when they go at it again, he will feel better.

beat

beat said...

RAJ

Welcome

I think we ALL feel the same to some degree about Powe.

It will be tough seeing him in a CAVS uni, but I really don't see him doing much if anything this season, and how he recovers is such a questionmark, I know several of us feel Bynum's knees are in tough shape well Leons been through so much more (not just the injuries either) no one can really root against him. I hope he makes it and plays well (just not against the C's).

beat

David14 said...

RAJ, welcome. I think most Celtic fans would normally feel the way you do about the Leon Powe situation. In reality, it appears the Celtics were in a Catch 22 situation where there was a great deal of criticism for some alleged "lack of moves" to defend the title last year. Therefore, it appears to me that the priority became rebuilding the bench in order to assist the Celtics win #18 while attempting to appease the "disappointed" fan base. In taking that approach it appears the team made a decision to sign those who could have an immediate impact versus reaching out to Leon.

Personally, I think Leon is in a better long term position with the Cavs, however I do agree that the Celtics could have handled the situation with more sensitivity.

Again, welcome to Sam's site.

David

Sam said...

Am I sensing a little momentum here? I hope so.

Welcome, RAJ. Yes, it's difficult not to contrast Powe's situation with those of McHale and Bird, whose marquee status late in their careers would probably have fetched AT LEAST some very enticing draft picks (if not difference-making players). But the Celtics kept the family together, and I admired them at the time for that even though the beginning of the end was obvious.

Of course, the ensuing two-decade championship drought clearly demonstrated the consequences of that kind of decision.

Aside from the obvious fact that Leon is far from the Bird/McHale ability level, his case may be a little different. Both from the Celtics' view and from his view.

From the Celtics' perspective, their championship core was still intact (although no one was sure about KG). That much-discussed "window of opportunity" made it almost obligatory that they not do that excellent core a disservice by failing to use every available roster slot and every available penny to reinforce the team.

From Leon's perspective, who knows what the implications might have been if the Celts had used a roster slot for him? If they hadn't been able to reinforce the team to the extent they did, might Leon have been under greater pressure to return earlier than he will in Cleveland?

Alternatively, if they had found a way to get Sheed and Daniels without also giving up Leon, would he have had far more difficulting breaking back into the lineup—to the point where he might have overdone it and reinjured himself?

All of this is, of course, conjecture. But the important things may be: (1) Leon proved himself to himself and a load over other people; (2) He won a championship ring with the Celtics; he gave us a heartwarming story that I hope we'll never forget; and (4) I do believe he knew how very much appreciation he felt from the fans in Boston.

So his departure does leave a less-than-palatable taste in the mouth, but it also leaves open the possibility of a rewarding future for Leon.

And Raj, you are NOT old as long as I'm around.

All the best,

Sam

Sam said...

Beat,

Nothing worse than confronting that debilitating feeling from a low-grade temperature while simultaneously trying to make a good impression on the court. Recover quickly, Marcus, and knock 'em dead next time.

Sam

kellygreen17 said...

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome. I am so excited for this season to start! I'll be attending this Friday's pre-season game vs. the Knicks and I'll try to report back on what I see.

Granted there probably won't be much action from the starters, but I'll be particularly interested in seeing what the rookie Hudson has to offer, as well as what improvements Giddens has made in the off-season.

I read in the Globe today that Doc expects Williams to play the role that Baby has for the past couple years, so I hope to get an idea of what his game is like as I really don't know much about him.

Go Celtics!

RAJ said...

David: You suggest that the C's could have handled the Leon Powe situation with greater "sensitivity."

Explain.

David14 said...

RAJ, if we can believe the articles "quoting" Leone he claimed that the Celtic's management group simply told him that there was nothing that they could do for him. It left him in limbo with a real lack of cooperative discussions. I believe the C's could have considered some type of compromise contract and/or attempted a sign and trade. Obviously, we are working with "hearsay", however I don't fault the Celtics for adding immediate impact players. In fact, I am excited about the upcoming year. However, it saddens me to read Leon's comments. Leon obviously left with a "chip" on his shoulders. I was hoping that Danny would have offered a publc statement with some type of attempt to reconcile how Leon feels. I always thought that a qualifying offer would have resulted in Leon still accepting a better offer from the Cavs.

I still love the C's, but I do hope that Leon does end up a superstar with no hard feelings.

Hope the above makes sense.

RAJ said...

Leon is never going to be a superstar no matter where he plays. A solid bench player... yes.

Doc was quite vocal at the end of the season that he wanted and expected the C's to save a slot for Leon during and thru his recuperation. Apparently Doc could not make that happen and those reassurances to Leon (and to his teammates watching this play out) failed to materialize.

Considering what Leon gave to the C's, I certainly understand the bad feelings on Leon's part. It's not like he hurt himself playing pickup or doing something stupid.

Leon was the consumate pro who did everything they asked him to do... and the C's IMHO took the expedient way out. Strictly business. I understand.

I wonder what Red would say.

Me? I say, "Winning and losing is less important than how you play the game." I don't know if Red every said anything like that .... but if he didn't, he should have.

Sam said...

Kelly,

Would you consider this? Since you're going to Friday's game, and since I'm going to open up a post-game discussion thread after each game, how about if I hold off on opening up that game' post until you email me with some observations. Then I'll open it up as YOUR post and you can sort of moderate that discussion. Would you be willing?

Sam

David14 said...

RAJ, I agree with your comments. I remember Doc's statements about working on Leon's behalf. I may be biased, however I believe Red would have found a way to keep Leon in the family while still creating a strong possibility of winning a championship. I agree Leon will unlikely become a superstar, however he surely has the heart of a champion.

I don't want to cause a renewed debate about "bashing Danny", however I would have expected Danny to have found a way to avoid the controversy. I suspect we'll continue to get "it's a business" response these days!!!

Good comments RAJ.

RAJ said...

I'm not interested in bashing Danny at all. After all, he brought that phenom from just down the road (Mauldin,S.C.) to the C's and I will always be grateful.

KG made me very proud once again to be a C's fan, from the tips of my toes all the way up to the smile on my face.

But so did Leon... and that's my dilemma. I've never felt this way before about a personnel change... that I can remember.

Of course, my memory is like a sieve at my age... but I really don't think so. This broke my heart.

kellygreen17 said...

Sam,

That sounds like a great idea. I'm no expert at game reporting, but I'll give it a shot! I know you have posted your AOL email address somewhere on here, but rather than digging through all the posts, would you mind providing your address here?

David14 said...

RAJ, you are definitely not alone in your concerns about the handling of Leon's issue. Particularly in light of the fact that Cleveland had no reservations in signing him to a contract. In my opinion the Celtics handling of the transaction was completely out of character for the organization. I'm glad Danny is "thick skinned", however his handling of Leon's saga and then the public fiasco with the criticism of Rondo makes one wonder. I guess the only thing we can do is wish Leon the best and hope there is mutual success for both sides.

Sam said...

Kelly,

You can email me at:

SlipSamCelt@aol.com

I'll look forward to getting your feedback on the game. Don't worry about trying to make it like some newspaper report. Any perspective you have on the game will do. Especially anything we might not have seen on television...warmup antics or rituals, interaction between the players and Doc, who hangs with whom on the bench, any of the Celtics veterans giving advice to the young guys, who's talking on the floor, etc.

Good luck, and have a great time.

Sam

Sam said...

Raj,

The last time I had a similar feeling about a player leaving the Celtics was ironically when they traded away (guess who)...Danny Ainge.

He was such a sparkplug and high IQ guy for the Celtics, and I just hated it when he left. They desperately needed rebounding help at the time, and they got two big guys in return (Kleine and Pinckney). So, just as in Leon's case, I intellectually understood it but really took an emotional hit over it.

I had thought, or at least hoped, that Leon would wind up as one of the nicest "rags to riches" stories in Celtics tradition. And he did. But for all too short a time.

Sam

RAJ said...

I loved Danny as a player. I vaguely remember his being traded away but it seemed like all the wheels had already started to come off when he exited.(But what a starting line up!!!! The Chief, Bird, Kevin, DJ and Danny. It doesn't get any better than that.)

Danny was near the end of his career as best I remember. Memory foggy!

We had a rags to riches to rags with Leon/Celtics... and I do give the C's credit for giving him a chance to showcase his talents.

The Leon message seems to be .... bust your ass, go all out, play like there is no tomorrow, give 110%, ubuntu!!! (but don't get hurt bcause if you do, you can forget ubuntu!).

COLD???

COLD!!!

To regress, I was 1000% against Marbury joining the C's last year and was very vocal about it. The antithesis of Celtic values. Self-centered, poision in the locker room, didn't deserve to wear Celtic green... the whole nine yards... to the point that I declared that I would rather lose the championship without him than win it with him. (I ultimately embraced him when he put on the green uniform. I had no choice but to accept him.)

Talk about my being a man of principle! ;-)

Now with Leon, my prinicple has become... I would prefer to lose a championship (perhaps a bit shorthanded) with him than win #18 without him.

Sam, you've been put on notice. You can dis-invite me anytime!!! I am utterly incorrigible.

Sam said...

RAJ,

Why would I disinvite you? In the first place, we guys wno are over 30 have to stick together. In the second place, you seem to lead somewhat with your heart, and that's always been an affliction of mine. Since when is standing up for a guy who busts his butt and achieves against the odds a "disinviting" offense? LOL.

Sam

opk3 said...

Bynum not following the advice of KAJ is foolish on his part. I refuse to give him the "only 22" slide. Magic was 20, KG 18 when they entered the league. Also interesting that he said two additional things:
1. Despite his new 12 mil contract, he feels he has NOTHING to prove
2. He claims not to care if he is in the game at "cruch time".

Makes me yearn for the days of Max, and "hop on my back, boys," doesn't it?

RAJ said...

At 22 and already making 12 big, big ones a year. Hmmmm! Some talent!

Bynum can apparently count UP TO 12. Okay. I'm easy. Little to prove to me...

Can the precocious one count backwards from 12 TO ZERO? (I bet management can.)

He better learn... and soon.